Strike 2 for the MacBook Pro

I've had my refurbished and repaired MacBook Pro for one week today and it looks like we're right back to where we started. A few days ago, apps started randomly crashing again; same as the first time around. I haven't loaded up the machine with much of anything, just the basics plus a few fun extras like Twitterific and PandoraMan. Oddly, those apps appear relatively stable and even stranger yet: Entourage has crashed several times today and the Crash Reporter doesn't even show it in the log.

The size of the crash logs is directly related to the number of crashes for each app; Firefox has crashed the most times and unfortunately, it's the most used app. To make matters worse: the "grey veil of death" as I like to call it has lowered like a curtain at least five times today. Full. System. Crash.

I'll be heading back to the Apple Store of course, but this is strike two in my book. Refurb or not, the hardware should work for two-grand and since this is a desktop replacement for me, it's a productivity killer. Luckily, I waited to remove the desktop from my home office, so I'll migrate back during the expected downtime.

The sad part is: I ran the hardware test this afternoon and received the exact same error in 3 seconds (above) that I had the last time before I brought the machine in a week ago. Time to put service to the test again; so far, my experience there is good. My overall Mac experience is stellar...say a 9 out of 10....when it's working. If I factored in the downtime and productivity losses, the experience is much lower of course. I'm now at the point where I don't feel confident I can be at home or (worse) on the road with the device. It simply isn't giving me a warm fuzzy that it will work when I need it.

I've also thought long and hard about some of the prior comments surrounding a refurbished unit. Perhaps I should have spent the extra money to buy a brand new notebook. I won't deny someone the ability to have a different perspective than me, but I have to ask: if people shouldn't be buying refurbished devices, maybe companies shouldn't be selling them in the first place. I don't truly believe that statement and I believe that Apple will resolve the issue, but pause and think about it. To blame the consumer for a refurbished purchase doesn't make sense in my book. Nor in my MacBook. ;)

Comments

[roland]

I bought a refurbed macBook Pro and I had a similar problem. I sent it in 3 times for repair. The 4th time the computers battery expanded on me bending the casing and Apple sent me a new one. Hopefully the same thing will happen to you.

[Ben Drawbaugh]

Wow, talk about bad luck.
Maybe we should switch MacBooks?

Seriously use the website to setup your appointment in advanced this time so you don't have to wait. apple.com/retail

As for refurbs, it is discounted for a reason. I agree that it should be as good as new, but you know you are taking a risk when you buy reburb, that is why you get a discount. It doesn't mean you shouldn't buy it. Either way it shouldn't take Apple more than one time to fix your problem. Just goes to show that they obviously have problems with QA in their service department.

[Kevin C. Tofel]

I'd say it is bad luck. It's just generally disappointing and disruptive to my work; which is no different than if it was my smartphone, a UMPC or whatever.

I really do want the unit fixed and working well. As I mentioned, when it works, I'm really enjoying it. The downtime: not enjoying. Thanks!

[Tedious]

Welcome to the Refurb Rollercoaster. Apple is better than most companies, letting you off after three strikes. I hope it doesn't go that far.

[Brian Jepson]

If you have an independent Apple repair place near you, you might want to give them a try. I started using a local one (http://www.tricomri.com) before Apple opened a store in Providence, but I still go to the independent shop even though the Apple Store is close by.

I've never had a bad experience in an Apple Store, but I've never tried to initiate a repair there. The impression I get from reading people's stories in blogs and forums is that the Genius Bar arrangement can be a lossy buffer between you and whoever fixes the computer; I've heard so many stories of people initiating repairs through Apple and getting their Mac back only to find the problem wasn't solved.

What I like about using a small authorized repair center is that the person I talk to at the counter is going to be the person working on it.

[Mark Polino]

I have to say it. I though Apples just worked? Whew! I feel better.

I can count on one finger the number Blue Screens of Death I've had in the last year with a Q1. I'll avoid a bunch of bad apple and fruit puns and just hope you get it fixed!

Mark

[Jayson Billington]

Not suprising considering it is an Apple... I've found the 'it just works' commentary to be way off base when it comes to Apple products.

[Sam]

Should have never bought a Mac to begin with... serves you right... next your keys will be melted with a swollen battery.

[JC]

I switched to the Mac a couple of years ago and have had poor experiences. Perhaps I was just "unlucky" but Windows has been more RELIABLE for me, and I've switched back for the most part.

The reps at several Apple stores told me they usually hear about upgrades before they are announced, and none were expected. Long story short, less than 30 days after my purchase the upgrade came with the super drive, apple display support, faster processor, and more. OK, I was unlucky in timing, and this says nothing about the product quality.

My Powerbook had a handful of dead pixels. The machine got so hot the "titanium" paint chipped off within 2 months (I typed quite a bit, but still, 2 months!). The CD burner frequently froze and "clicked" for minutes, and refused to eject the disk. When it did seem to work, the burned disks were unreadable. When waking from sleep the screen often stayed black, though the hard drive spun; only cutting off the power (including battery) then turning the device back on would bring the screen back. The hinge fused in the first year and literally broke off through the screen, and then when I took the hinge off it literally took two plyers and a lot of muscle to rotate the hinge. After two years, the hard drive also failed. By the way, this was a new product, not refurbished, and I take good care of my products, especially when they cost so much.

I also bought an early generation iPod. Right away the battery lasted 2-3 hours. A year later it froze frequently and wouldn't respond to any buttons. Another year later the screen stopped working; it would work when turning it on (the apple logo appears, nice and dark), but then the pixels turn almost completely blank so you can't read anything. Eventually there was a class action suit for which I received a $25 check (the iPod cost about $500 when I bought it, I think).

I love a lot of features of the Mac OS but after my experiences (though few-just a Powerbook and an iPod) I am returning to Windows. I'm neither praising nor bashing Apple products in general. These are just my experiences.

[Mike Cane]

It hate you.

You.

Only Y.O.U.

It'll be nice to me me me.

Address coming in email.

Ha!

[Richard]

Sorry you're having these problems. Apple refurb, in my opinion, is mostly just turning them on after they return, running a few programs, and reshipping them. I went through two refurb iMacs before buying new, and the new works as advertised. I bought the same refurb model for my wife. It seemed to work well as mine was replaced, and then replaced again. The day my new iMac arrived, her refurbished machine died. The board burned up. The lesson here — they're returned for a reason.

As for Macs not being as high quality as Dells or HPs, geez, guys, what Koolaid are your drinking? The issue here is refurbished Macs, new ones work great (I've owned what? Fifteen?) and the OS is light years ahead of Windows. People going back to Windows are, in my opinion, going back because it's what they know and they aren't flexible enough to learn new ways of doing things. Knew is very often better.

A friend's HP Windows machine gave her constant problems. She replaced it with a Dell. It bombed consistently, blue screened her. She saw my wife and I with our Macs. We told her, never a down day, never a down minute in fifteen years(this before we tried to save a buck with the refurbs). She bought a Mac. It bombed on her constantly. It didn't work properly. She whined, "But it won't run exe programs." When we explained to her that Macs and PCs are different platforms, she couldn't grasp the idea. A friend of her convinced her to get rid of the Mac and get yet another Dell. I bought the Mac from her and used it as my principal machine for two years before upgrading to an Intel Mac. Her Dell bombs on her constantly. She asked me if her old Mac ever gave me problems. I replied, "No, it was all operator errors." My point here is, once you get past this Apple refurb thing (three times and they give you a new one), and you take the time to learn how they work, you'll find that Macs aren't perfect, just better, and they'll serve you well.

Good luck!

[Matt]

Bummer. You have a wicked intermittent problem. The fact it ran without incident for days and now is back to it means it is going to be really hard for a repair shop (any repair shop) to diagnose and fix. I used to work in that business; if we got one like this, we'd just shotgun the thing until the failure disappeared. It's costly in terms of time and money. Probably more cost effective for Apple to pull out all the guts and put new stuff in. But, they are probably cost- and process-driven at a macro level to turn the thing around quickly, so I wouldn't be surprised if you get to the third strike (my bet -- they just replace the RAM this time). At least then you'll get a new box.
FWIW, I have a house full of Macs and have owned Macs since about 1990. The first one I ever bought -- a IIsi -- came DOA with a bad disk. Haven't had a single problem since. My current Mac Pro that I've had since August has never given me the "grey veil" as you call it. I did see that a few times on a previous machine with an early version of Mac OS X and some really bad 3rd party software, but it's been years. If you're getting that multiple times a day, that's not "normal."

[Jayson Billington]

[snip]
As for Macs not being as high quality as Dells or HPs, geez, guys, what Koolaid are your drinking? The issue here is refurbished Macs, new ones work great...
[/snip]

Except that there are countless new ones that do not work great that end up being 'refurbished' units.

[ArchiMark]

Sorry to hear about your trials and tribulations, Keving...hopefully you'll get over this soon!

FWIW, I've had several Macs going back to '86 (and PC's since '89..) and on the whole I've found Macs to be excellent and with very little, if any problems.

While I have a great new MacBook C2D, I still use my ol' reliable '98 PMG4 tower almost every day. I've upgraded CPU/Video Card/HD's a few times and maxed out RAM and it just keeps chugging along nicely, even running OSX 10.49 right now with no problems!

So hang in there, think you'll find that it's worth it once you get over this hiccup...

Just my 2 cents... ;-)

[Patrick]

Hey Kevin,
sorry to hear about your macbook pro woes; its a shame that the hardware is affecting your mac experience. I'm a PC guy at heart, but I have been reintroduced to macs at my new workplace, and I agree that the mac experience is nice (except for some of the superflous bouncing around of icons); its a shame that they don't sell the Mac OS separately, coz I can definitely get used to running Mac on hardware that's a tad more stable. Anyhoo, refurbished doesn't mean its crap - I had a refurbished IBM thinkpad that served me and my family well for over 2 years, never had a problem (except the battery only lasted an hour), and that only cost me a fraction of your macbook pro ($700AUS in 2002). 'Refurbished' should mean 'bargain', and not 'headache'.

Take it easy.
ps: I refer you to a cnet.com podcast called "The Real Deal" - I think the episode two weeks ago was on refurbished goods.

[tnkgrl]

Most of the Apple products I've purchased (new or refurbished or used) have been very reliable...

A lot more problems than usual were being reported all over the net with early production (Core Duo) 15" MacBook Pro systems last year - maybe these were refurbished and are still problem prone?

Anyway I experienced similar problems to yours with a refurbished 12" PowerBook G4 a few years ago - it turned out to be memory related. The PQI brand memory I'd originally purchased for a PC laptop and installed in my Mac was spec-ed properly, but caused recurring strange random problems - I replaced it with Crucial brand memory and the problems stopped.

Fast forward a couple of years, and the PQI brand memory installed in my Intel Mac mini is working fine - go figure :)

[Don't Panic!]

So what's the moral of this story, YMMV? (LO)L I'd like a MAC but what's the learning curve like for a dedicated Windows user since Windows 3.1? Is hardware part of that curve or does the software just "think different"?

[bmhome1]

Repeat advice worth repeating: start visiting three Mac web sites daily for at least one week:

MacInTouch.com
MacFixIt.com
powerpage.org

The reality and truth about Apple hardware "quality" and "support" will become instantly clear FROM Mac owners.

MacFixIt reveals the soft underbelly of OSX no one ever addresses or admits exists. The issues will be reported as long as one bothers following never-ending saga.

And their precise procedure they strongly advocate for EVERY single OSX update is sobering indeed.

Boiling hot MacBook Pro's and intense heat system instability relationship is well-documented. Google it to see real deal.

[bmhome1]

I'll make the MacBookPro shutdown history research easy:

http://www.macintouch.com/readerreports/macbookpro/topic4139.html

It's probably the most widely issues reported laptop in years.

[Heatmiser]

bmhome:

Ha. Check out the Dell support site for some real laughs.

It's all about averages. There will be problems with machines from EVERY SINGLE COMPUTER COMPANY. The question is, who has the most? Ever seen a study that documents this? Apple usually comes out on top.

[DBL]

Five grey screens in one day! That's more than the entire number of those screens I've seen in the history of my last two Macs. I feel bad for you buddy, but this is very far from the usual experience. I know one dude who has gone through an iMac 20", a PowerBook G4 12", an iMac 24", and now a MacBook Pro with not a single grey screen among them. Another friend has a MacBook (recent switcher) and is enormously happy with no grey screens. And several other people I do geek-support have also never reported to me a grey screen. In fact, I'm the only one who has ever seen a grey screen, and that's only because I tend to geek out and install weird stuff.

If this is a common Mac problem, then we must be the luckiest group of people on the face of the Earth!

[DBL]

And oh yeah ... beware of selection bias in looking at troubleshooting websites. Remember that you are looking at a website which represents the sum total of all people with Mac troubles in the entire English-speaking world, but you are judging it like all those people are just next door. ALL troubleshooting websites are like this, and NO manufacturer can survive this loopy logic.

It's like if you were to walk into the annual Flintstones Great Gazoo festival, and then walk out thinking that the Flintstones are worthless because every episode has a stupid floating alien in it. Needless to say, your perception is inaccurate, but try not to get too jealous when you discover that so many other people seem to inexplicably enjoy tons of perfectly good Gazoo-free Flintstones episodes. Where did all these episodes come from?!?! You didn't see them at the Gazoo festival!!

Once you figure how to get out of your own personal Mac Gazoo festival, you'll be okay... I know this, because everyone else I know is.

[bmhome1]

Good grief. He needs information absurdly easy finding offering better insight than yarns about devotion to platforms. Kevin deserves better.

[DBL]

Sorry bmhome1 but your post reads exactly like a spam subject line -- it makes no absolutely no sense whatsoever. Reboot brain and try again. Perhaps get some sleep in between.

[comsurgeb]

Kevin:

FWIW, I ordered our iMac 20inch 2 GHz Core Duo with 512MB RAM, 250GB SATA drive and ATI Radeon X1600 128MB VRAM one year ago.

I thought I had the wrong order with the box came with wireless keyboard and mouse and iLife DVDs. Imagine my surprise when the System Profiler showed: 2 GB RAM, 500GB HD and 256 MB VRAM. One year later, no problems. Maybe I'm lucky!

Hope your experience gets better. I've been eying those refurbed MB Pros.

Yes, I am a Mac fan-boy but thanks to your blog, I am a happy P1610 owner.

[ignar]

Whenever I hear people complaining about bluescreens on their Windows, I can't help thinking what they do with their PCs. I have seen bluescreen or system freeze less than 3 times since Windows XP was introduced. I have no preference between Apple and Microsoft, and have two Macs and five iPods along with five Windows boxes. But, I honestly believe the reliability of Mac is overstated while Windows don't get due credit. Also remember PCs are open system and Windows need to support much more variety of hardware devices. If PCs were designed as close as Macs are, I bet Windows would have been even more reliable.
That said, sorry to hear your bad luck, Kevin. It seems the initial problem was never addressed. The error message seems to suggest bad memory, and I don't understand why Apple guys replaced hard drive without taking care of seemingly obvious memory problem last time. Hope you have better luck this time.

[James Kendrick]

comsurgeb, the MacBook and the P1610 make a killer combination for productivity, don't they? :)

[Mike Cane]

What's up with jk and *his* Mac?

And this reburb woe makes me wonder how those Q1 woot buyers are doing!!

[bmhome1]

Dear DBL,

I feel honored to be recipient of the first personal attack I've ever observed at this formerly virgin site.

The phenomenon of third post choice by Mac fans guaranteed to be hostile, personal attack seducing open warfare probably means something. I guess ferocity measures victory. Whatever.

The ruin of Engadget within six months from same fate influx was tragic. Flame wars like cancer kill off useful discussion on news if subject MS, Apple, Vista, OSX or even Apple TV, it doesn't matter.

But not here, I have too much respect for the host's implicit civility rule.

Please.

btw, those three Mac sites suggested are unique in their 100% Mac enthusiasm while somehow still embracing open, unbiased dialog of Mac issues every user should be armed with, good or not so good. Knowledge is power.

If I was Kevin, I'd want all the backround and history unfiltered from agendas. He's savvy enough to process everything and still end up loving Mac but with depth beyond unbridled promise sophomoric nonsense.

[bmhome1]

I forgot to add that kernel panics are almost always hardware related and just about certain caused by bad RAM.

Macs are insanely sensitive to even marginal performing RAM that passes usual cursory hardware tests. Apple Hardware Test CD included.

If possible, boot with good old memtest CD and let run fully 24 hours or longer. There will probably be errors galore.

If clean, next suspect any and all peripherals, no matter how seemingly inconsequential. Keyboards, USB cables, slot cards, all can cause repeated kernel panics.

Last would be motherboard itself, does happen.

[Elo]

Well Kevin,

If it is of any consolation to you, Judie from Gear Diary appears to have some weird stuff happening to her Macbook pro too.

http://www.geardiary.com/2007/03/30/my-wearing-macbook-pro/#more-2533